And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. In verse 7 we see the only thing in the entire situation that was any good at all. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. But, you would think that after two years you would get the idea that this was not breaking. The Gibeonites decided on a different strategy. It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Other Translations for 2 Samuel 21:1 Discussion for 2 Samuel 21 View All Is there something I'm missing? Their special, if dishonest, dealings with the leaders of Israel gained them a notoriety that most of the tribes and clans of the ancient Mid-East never attained. What did David do to end the famine caused by Saul breaking a treaty with the Gibeonites? There is a very important difference. Or as the 6. He was endangering the whole army by being out there, an old man trying to fight like a young man. There were no conditions. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea DECEPTION AND COST This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. Web16 And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. It is not genetic. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. "Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? There is demotion. But it does not say so here in so many words. VERSE 2. Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. They are two separate things. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. His anger at the It is for Saul. It says that they were Saul's sons. The Gibeonites have the dubious distinction of having duped Joshua and the elders of Israel. Share Who was the father of Mephibosheth? Report. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. Clarify Time to retire!" the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the God would have said, "Kill them all!" Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. How many wars were fought? There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. They are still there. Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. It does not seem to me that during this time of the three years of famine David was emulating the attitude that he wrote about in Psalm 34. Webzeal of king Saul - who was a Benjaminite - against the Gibeonites. They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. This shows that this portion of the story in II Samuel 21, hanging the bodies for six months or so, was an additional curse upon the land. God was not in all his thoughts during this time. They were appeasing their own god to send rain. II Samuel 21:1-2 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. God sent the rain, it says specifically, "from heaven," verse 10, "in the latter rains," which is their normal cycle. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. He is able to judge justly. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Report, September 02 2013 David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. Such a shame to destroy it all! What have you been thinking about?". Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! During Davids reign, the people of Gibeon demanded that all of Sauls children be put to death so as to atone for a severe famine. We have examples of where that has happened, but he did not do that this time. Jew or gentile? It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. There were not very many of them left. . The Israelites had promised not to But the massacre of the Gibeonites probably occurred after that. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. The famine was a punishment for Sauls violation of the covenant, made with the Gibeonites back during the days of Joshua. God's correction may come a That is the bottom line. He did not do anything to directly intervene. Probably what happened was that they put them on the top of the hill at Gibeah, so that God in the Tabernacle could "see" the execution being done. The consequences are not the guilt. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. Just tell me and I will do it for you.. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. (4:10). Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, Guilt for sin is not hereditary. This is what we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for sin, and the lingering effects of sin. But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. I think he was very low. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. But Joshua had the final decision. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned for forty -two years over Israel. 5. Then we have the explanations of which we just went over. Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. 2. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. He wanted to go do something else. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. But what actually did Saul do to the Gibeonites? Also David seems to have only spared Mephibosheth only because he made an oath, and not for the fact that he was only five years old and did not participate in killing the Gibeonites? What might he have done? This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION When this righteous ruler turned to God, the Lord showed him that arrogant error of his predecessor. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. Although he had peace at this time, I think he was worried because they just had two successive rebellions, and were almost to the point of victory over King David until they were eliminated. God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. Community answers are sorted based on votes. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. You didn't do it. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving Report The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. 1. Let me ask God about this. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. God sees behind the scenes. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. Except for verse 21, there is very little mention of God in the whole episode. It was common knowledge. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. Now the Gibeonites were not of the people of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites. 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. THE STORY OF THE GIBEONITES - We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. Scripture has said this explicitly. Now, we move forward, not very long in time, to Joshua 9. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? They did not inquire. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. I will do it." You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. You do not know. WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. Jonathan and Saul led the The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. We know that you said not to make a covenant with the people the land. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. He just weakly said, "Oh okay, whatever you want. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. Evidently, he thought that he could win back his kingdom if he zealously did God's will. WebThe biblical writer confirms this charge by stating that Saul tried to annihilate [ nkah, to inflict a dead blow] them (2 Sam. There were no cell phones. WebSaul slew the Gibeonites, not simply as the son of Kish, but as the king of Israel, and therefore involved all Israel with him in the violation of the national oath; and hence, until the evil should be put away by the execution of the immediate offender or his representatives, all Israel must suffer. The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. He could have done whatever he wanted. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? It is after Absalom's rebellion. I haven't been keeping up on things. He says that He visits the iniquity upon them. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. And David sought the face of the Lord. Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. He just simply rolled over. But certainly, David was. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. We had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar. Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. Good question. And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. Another thing that God said to do was not done. He did this "in his zeal for. For the Gibeonites, their wily guile and deception gained them survival and nothing more. Seven of Sauls descendants were hanged as a result. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. II Samuel 21:3-6 Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? Why were genealogies so important to Israel? Then, pray for all you are worth so that your relationship with God and Jesus Christ is strong when the famine hits. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of Saul, after having disqualified Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." He will not relent. Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God punishes people for their own iniquity. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, "You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.". Because of their peace treaty and their oath with the Gibeonites, which included these people. Evidently, that is what he did. But so did David. A lot can happen in two years. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. And, that was that. For a relatively small group the Gibeonites drove a hard bargain and soon it was a done deal. He allowed his actions to be dictated by the Gentile principle of retributionvengeancerather than God's law on such matters. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. God is warning here that sin has consequences. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. David did not make any counter demands. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? The young lions lack and suffer hunger; but those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing. This was obviously later in his life and reign. God said explicitly to destroy everything! Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". What should we get out of this? lorraine goode. When were threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul he disobeyed Jehovah by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel to do it. EVIL'S ULTIMATE END. And the king said, "I will give them." King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. Certainly, after three years you would. The historical narrative of King David is drawing to a close. . It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. fit into Creation? Report, August 29 2022 They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. Think of it as if it were today. Where are they from? Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. By this time, Moses had died and was buried. Their representatives were not up front with the Israeli leaders. So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. The Gibeonites achieved their short term goal - survival; but they paid a terribly long term price for it - virtual slavery! If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. Berean Literal Bible Acts 13:21. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. This was history now. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Vote Up By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. Verse 1 did say that it was "Saul and his bloodthirsty house" who had massacred the Gibeonites. What is the meaning of the parable of the rich man and his manager? Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. WebWe will attack Gibeon, because they have made peace with Joshua and the Israelites." Share And it would have been done quickly and easily. But, they like the dark one because he is moody, and doing things not for quite the right reasons. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. Even their empty wine skins were completely dried up and cracked. Therefore, your kingdom is taken away and given to another. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. So the famine continued for another half a year. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. 4. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. Most, if not all, of those responsible were dead. Moreover, Samuel said, "What have you done? So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. So David asked the Lord for help, and the Lord answered, Saul and his family are guilty of murder, because he had the Gibeonites killed. Share It does not seem so. 20, and still another between Saul and David in 1 Samuel 24. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! II Samuel 21:7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. He was thinking about a lot of other things. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. 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